We sat down with filmmaker, journalist and director David France and gay rights and HIV activist Peter Staley to talk about their brand new documentary film How To Survive A Plague, which chronicles the astounding progress of the modern gay rights movement and how the gay community dealt with the AIDS epidemic in the 80s and 90s.
Why was it important to make a documentary like How To Survive A Plague? David France: I wanted to go back and do a project about the early years of AIDS, which I had covered as a print journalist and it occurred to me that somehow in our collective recollection of what happened in those years, we kind of condensed everything. We thought of the early years as being sad and then better, but what was lost in that recollection was what it took to get to one place to the other. It took this tremendous epic movement of mostly gay men and lesbians,originating in New York but moving around the globe, to change so much about the way, first of all, what we think about the community in the larger media, and then to transform science and medicine and pharmacological research in a way that people have benefitted across the globe.
The idea that this was lost, that this movement that Peter and his colleagues had invented out of thin air and out of a desperation, which produced these tremendous victories, seemed to me to be a burden of responsibility to carry forward.
What do you want How To Survive A Plague to achieve? DF: I want people to remember what happened. I want people to recognise that AIDS in the plague years, before there was effective treatment, wasn’t just a period of tragedy. Although it was marked by these intense tragedies. These deaths were just unstoppable and the loss that we’ve all had to carry since then, but it was also a time of great news.
Before HIV or AIDS activism it gave (gay) people, at least in the United States, perhaps more than in the UK, a real role in public life.
We were isolated. We were living in these geographical ghettos. We were hated – officially and culturally and rejected by everybody across the board including our families.
To go from there in 1981 when AIDS first hit till 1996 when the drugs were finally discovered, promulgated and brought out; and HIV was survivable, that was also this period of amazing cultural integration and this revolution of the way we exist in society.
Peter Staley: I hope it inspires young gay men and lesbians, and really shows them their history and how we got to this point. It shows them the power of our community.
It shows gay people at their best. In one of the worst moments we ever faced we rose above it. We took care of each other. It was extraordinary and beautiful. At the same time, it’s something very important, for my generation, to help us remember and memorialise what we went through and to remember the friends that we lost.
A lot of us didn’t process those years, and this film and others that have come after it, and looking back, is something we need to go through. We need to honour the sacrifice of those that we lost and the extraordinary work they did that allows all of us to live happy long lives these days.
Is the gay community as politically charged today as it was in the 80s and 90s? PS: Yes it is charged up. AIDS forced us out of the closet. Either we laid down and died and got wiped out or we had to stand up and come out of the closet and fight back.
Once we did that, we realised that as a community we had immense power and this film just shows it beautifully.We had this innate power as a community and that launched the modern gay rights movement. Especially in the States with
gays in the military first and nobody ever thought we’d have close to 20 states now in the US with gay marriage.
Gay marriage is now happening in the UK and across Europe and countries in South America. This is just something I would never have dreamed of.
There are massive amounts of activism around, but I wish there was a little bit of it to be brought back to finish
the work on AIDS. I speak out about that a lot these days because obviously, the crisis is not over. It’s liveable but the virus is still infecting way too many gay men and we need to fight that. We need to slowly wind down this epidemic. We have the tools to do it.
With the sharp increase of new HIV infections, particularly amongst young gay men, how does that make you feel, when you see that happening? PS: It’s frustrating, but I don’t feel anger towards younger gay men who are not responding to HIV like my generation responded to it because it was two very different times. My generation changed its behaviours and fought against HIV / AIDS.
It became the issue in the gay rights movement because all my friends were dying in front of me. In the absence of that death, which only happened because of the amazing success of the activism we did, you have a very different challenge, you have apathy.
There’s a lack of fear and without that fear, which is an incredible motivator for behaviour change and activism, it’s a very different battle.
So I’m not casting blame, I think if I was a 22-year-old HIV-negative man now I’d be pretty oblivious myself. I think it’s human nature. We just have to accept that and work around it and use social media and tell the real story about how living with HIV still is something that nobody should want to face a life of.
It’s still quite challenging. You have to take the medication for the rest of your life. You have to remain anally compulsively engaged in the healthcare system in order to not screw that up because, if you mess up on your meds you will eventually get sick. There are still people with HIV who die. I wouldn’t wish this on anyone and we need to give the real picture.
DF: We have to keep on talking about it. That’s what we’re not doing. People are making decisions about their own
lives in a total vacuum thinking, ‘So I’ll take a pill a day’ and if we were talking about it collectively as a community we might be up to convey the information that Peter is talking about. That these pills are really tough pills. It might give you a near normal lifespan but it’s not going to give you, necessarily, a near normal life. We don’t know what people are going to be like 50 years out on this medication.
PS: Plus the stigma is horrible, and you’re going to face a life of that stigma: Dating, finding a boyfriend or a future husband, you’ll find a massive challenge. It is a massive challenge for people who are HIV and that’s horrible but that’s the reality that we’re faced with these days.
Meet Portland resident Thomas Lauderdale, the rather fabulous founder and pianist of the multi- million-selling pop-jazz group, Pink Martini. Thomas had an interesting upbringing when his father became the subject of multiple talk shows when he came out as gay. Thomas was just 10 at the time. His father went on to become the first openly gay minister in his denomination.
CREDIT: Autumn De Wilde / PR Supplied
WATCH: I Like To Watch. FRAGRANCE: Victory Wolf in Portland. We are creating a Limited edition in partnership with Victory Wolf Pink Martini presents… CLOTHING BRAND(S): UPTOWN: I have two out ts one is Hugo Boss suit in grey or navy. And then Vintage Football pants from Army and navy Surplus store. DOWNTOWN: There is a hot new gay strip club in Portland called Stag PDX. It is the first club in Portland where men can strip fully. FAVOURITE DRINK: Hello Goodbye which is a drink we can get in Portland. What’s in it? Bacardi Silver Rum/ roasted coconut water/ lime. FAVOURITE RESTAURANT: Lúc Lác Vietnamese Kitchen in Portland Oregon. – cheapest and best. FAVOURITE PLACE TO GO ON A FIRST DATE: Rooster Rock which is a nude beach where the Columbia River meets the Gorge. Check out my Instagram on thomasmlauderdale. FAVOURITE TRAVEL DESTINATION: Hawaii – the beaches are amazing. FAVOURITE BOOK: A Confederacy of Dunces, John Kennedy Tool. FAVOURITE TV SHOW: I don’t have a TV. THREE TOP SONGS ON MY PLAYLIST: “Everybody’s Talkin” – Midnight Cowboy “Rivers of Babylon” – Boney M “Vera Lynn” – Now is the Hour FAVOURITE GADGET: Music Box. QUOTE TO LIVE BY: “We may not all break the Ten Commandments, but we are certainly all capable of it. Within us lurks the breaker of all laws, ready to spring out at the first real opportunity. Virtuous people are simply those who have either not been tempted sufficiently, because they live in a vegetative state, or because their purposes are so concentrated in one direction that they have not had the leisure to glance around them.” – Isadora Duncan, “My Life”
Don’t mind us, we’re just having a flashback. Last year we spoke to the gorgeous Janet Devlin famed for her Celtic Soul voice on X Factor. We spoke about her Christmas EP, her Twitter (not so much) war with Lord Sugar and why bisexuals in the media are rarer than Unicorns.
CREDIT: Supplied
JH: Christmas is on its way, how are excited are you on a scale of one to Madonna?
JD: It is upon us… I’m actually really excited this year, I’m not going to lie. Probably the most excited I’ve been about Christmas since I was a toddler.
JH: Anything to do with the fact that you’ve got an EP out this Christmas?
JD: I think so! The whole point of me making the EP was to try and make myself like Christmas, so I definitely think I’ve achieved that. Every other year I’ve been so grinchy about it, this year. I’m just so pumped about it.
JH: But come on you’re Janet Devlin, you’re too cool for school for all that aren’t you?
JD: I’m not too cool if anything I’m the complete opposite man… I’m a bit of a nerd.
JH: I’m sure you’ve been asked a hundred times, are you watching X factor this year? Has it had its day?
JD: I don’t know, I don’t think so. My Mum still watches it, my Nan still watches it, I don’t think it’s had its day, it’s part of people’s Saturday night ritual isn’t it? You get a take-out and you watch X factor and you have your night in, I don’t think it’s ever going to have its day, to be honest.
JH: There needs to be space for a new type of Christmas number 1 though – right? Like yours?
JD: (laughs) possibly I don’t know.
JH: So tell us what makes your perfect Christmas day?
JD: Chilled, laid back hopefully have my Nan there, we always fight over her, cause everyone wants her to come down and spend it with her on Christmas day, hopefully, we’ll get her this year. We’ve had a new addition to the family; my brother’s just had a baby, so that will be nice. I’m just really easy when it comes to it really. Everyone’s there, everyone has a good time – and a bit of banter, you know?
JH: Are you a banter family?
JD: Yes, definitely I have three older brothers and they just like to rip ya! So it’s definitely good craic at my house.
JH: So what do your family think of your Christmas EP then?
JD: They haven’t heard it, I played one of my brother’s one or two tracks and he really likes it, so that to me is a good sign, so they haven’t heard it but I made them order their copy from Pledge!
JH: So no freebies for the Devlin’s then?
JD: No freebies until I get home.
CREDIT: Supplied
JH: When did you start writing your EP?
JD: It was February believe it or not. I was in New York and I was walking through Central Park and it was all snowy and beautiful I was like “this year I’m not going to be a Grinch, I’m actually going to be Christmasy”, so I went back to the hotel with my guitar player and we wrote a Christmas song. Pardon, the pun it all snowballed from there.
JH: Which is your ultimate Christmas song?
JD: Ultimate Christmas song is definitely “Fairy-tale of New York” by the Pogues, every time I hear that it’s like “this is when it’s Christmas”. So I avoid listening to it until Christmas. If me or my brothers hear it on the radio we have to ring the other one, to say “it was on, it’s Christmas!”
JH: Your Christmas song is very John Lewis, would you like your music to be used in that way?
JD: Who wouldn’t? I like their emotional ads!
JH: We’ve heard that you’ve teamed up with Ditch The Label, the anti-bullying charity, why was this important to you?
JD: Well I myself was bullied for a long time, a lot of years actually, I’m not going to lie. I mean I still get cyber bullied but I’m at that age now when I’m just like I don’t really care. I know how it feels, I know how hard it is to be bullied on the Internet and in real life, so for me, I’ve always stayed true to working with anti-bullying campaigns and anti-bullying charities because it’s important to work on it. It’s a good thing too when you understand it and you’ve been there.
JH: Is cyber bullying harder than real life bullying?
JD: I was bullied, even physically at some points, but I do think Internet bullying actually, because if you get hurt physically it’s easier to brush off because you know bruises fade, but Internet bullying is a totally different kettle of fish, people think, “oh you’ve been bullied online why don’t you just shut off your computer, why don’t you just step away from the Internet”, but no, that doesn’t work that way, what people say to you works its way into your head.
JH: Did you say mean things back?
JD: No, gosh no. I was asked about it, but what does that show – money can’t buy happiness if you’re giving abuse to a 16-year-old girl on the Internet – why would you do it – you know?
JH: You spoke openly about your sexuality in 2013 and you came out as bisexual on ASK.fm, was it a difficult decision for you to make?
JD: It was a thing in my head, I knew always really. So I didn’t think twice, that was just the way it was. I didn’t want to make a big deal about it, what’s the biggie?
JH: Do you think writing bisexual storylines just gets too complicated?
JD: I think it possibly could but, it shouldn’t be. Could people keep up with someone dating a boy and then dating a girl, I don’t know, it’s a tough one. I think it’s easier for some people to think in black and white, to think you’re either gay or your straight, it’s easier – so I think a lot of storyline writers make their life easier by keeping it black and white.
JH: Does it surprise you that Northern Ireland is still so far behind with LGBT rights?
JD: It bugs me and I’m not going to lie. That idea that someone could go to hospital and their loved one might not be able to go and see them, because their not technically their spouse, that to me is just upsetting and not something I want to think about, to be honest.
JH: Do you think that’s something that’s likely to change in Northern Ireland in the coming year? There was recently a vote on same- sex marriage in Northern Ireland and it was largely supported but a technicality meant it didn’t pass –
JD: Yep, I think that’s going to keep happening for quite some time. I think that’s the way it is for at least another couple of years. I think we’ll get there eventually.
JH: Especially when the country that borders Northern Ireland – Ireland – overwhelming has accepted it!
JD: Absolutely, you’d think that the north would be a bit more forward thinking, but not just yet. Most people are (accepting) though when you talk to people, there’s a minority that, I won’t say spoil it, but…
JH: But they do….
JD: No, gosh no. I was asked about it, but what does that show – money can’t buy happiness if you’re giving abuse to a 16-year-old girl on the Internet – why would you do it – you know?
TGUK: How did you come out at school?
CHARLIE: I told one person and they told another and they told another. I was only 15.
TGUK: And how did you find coming out?
CHARLIE: No one said anything. I was quite well liked at school and had lots of friends so if anyone said anything bad they never said it to me.
TGUK: Did you have a boyfriend in school?
CHARLIE: I did but not at school. I had various boyfriends at that time. (Laughs)
TGUK: Was it a nerve wrecking experience coming out to that first person?
CHARLIE: It was, but I kinda knew how they were going to react so I don’t think people were that shocked when I came out. I think I built it up too much in my head beforehand.
TGUK: So the night before were you nervous?
CHARLIE: It wasn’t a case of me planning to tell her it just happened on the day I was with her and I thought ‘You know what I’m going to tell her’ and she was like ‘I kinda knew anyway’. Which was how my mum reacted as well. My dad passed away when I was 15 which spiralled me to come out.
TGUK: Is that what drove you to come out?
CHARLIE: At the age I am now I know that he knew anyway but because of him going it made me think, ‘Why do people not know who I am. Why did I not tell him?’ So I started telling everyone else. I grew up from it and matured a lot and it made me the person I am today.
TGUK: When did you move to London?
CHARLIE: Two years ago.
TGUK: Did you start working at Ku straight away?
CHARLIE: Yes, this was my first job. Literally the week I moved to London I started working here.
TGUK: And how do the regulars treat you?
CHARLIE: They’re interesting. There are some that are a bit difficult but it’s part of the job. You’re putting yourself behind the bar to be looked at, to be attractive towards other people so you kinda have to take what they say sometimes.
TGUK: Do you ever feel like a piece of meat?
CHARLIE: Yeah quite a lot but I’ve got used to it and part of the job is to flirt with people. You don’t live on your wage you have to make tips and to make tips you have to flirt, so you get use to it. I’ve been working in gay bars for four years now so it’s nothing new to me.
TGUK: On a good weekend how much can you make in tips?
CHARLIE: You could make £100 to a £120 a night but you could also make £40 it depends what people are in. You either have a good night or a crap night. Normally it’s around £50-60.
TGUK: So if a guy’s standing at the bar and he’s waving a £10 note at you would he get served?
CHARLIE: You’re more likely to serve someone who’s holding cash than not because they’re probably going to pay by card.
TGUK: Does this slow down the process?
CHARLIE: No it’s not that, you don’t want to serve people by card as they normally wont leave a tip! In a job like this where your income is quite heavily based around tips you’ve got to learn which people are going to tip you. You know when people are going to tip you. Though if someone was going to wave money in front of me I’d actually serve them last because I don’t like people who are trying to call my attention. I can see who came to the bar first and I can see who’s next so if someone tries to interrupt me I don’t like that.
TGUK: Do you like bar work?
CHARLIE: Yeah I love it. I do it full time. When you go behind a bar it’s like stepping onto a stage, you can be a little more out there.
TGUK: Do you become a different character?
CHARLIE: Not really. I probably ‘gay’ it up a little bit more. What’s the word… Sassy!
TGUK: So a little bit more RuPaul’s Drag Race behind the bar?
CHARLIE: Erm a little bit. I’m not like that day-to-day it’s only when I go behind the bar. It’s about banter because there’s a lot of older gay men in here who are very witty and they try and catch you, so you have to be quick witted to get them back.
TGUK: Do they ever try bad chat up lines to get you?
CHARLIE: Not so much chat up lines. A few people are a little more direct and tell you ‘I want to do this…’
TGUK: Have you got a partner?
CHARLIE: Yes.
TGUK: Does he work here?
CHARLIE: No.
TGUK: So what do you do in your spare time?
CHARLIE: I do gym quite a lot. Spend a lot of time with my boyfriend.
TGUK: Where did you meet your boyfriend?
CHARLIE: On a night out in Soho. We got introduced through one of his flatmates who worked at Ku bar.
TGUK: Do you live together?
CHARLIE: Yes, in a flat with two other gays and a girl. It’s good fun though.
TGUK: Would you ever date a Ku boy?
CHARLIE: N… erm…
TGUK: Are there Ku boys who date other Ku boys?
CHARLIE: Yeah. When I first started here everyone was a little bit more… can I say… incestuous? I’ve done the whole dating someone at work thing and it doesn’t work.
TGUK: Have you done a lot of modelling for Ku?
CHARLIE: For Ku? I’ve done quite a few photo shoots.
TGUK: How do you feel about that because you’re kinda like a brand extension?
CHARLIE: When you get the job you kinda sign up for it but you can say no. Just say you don’t want to do it. I don’t mind my face being around the bar. In some ways it’s confidence boosting.
TGUK: Is it a rule that every Ku boy has to look good?
CHARLIE: I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t but I don’t know how the interview process works here…
TGUK:(Laughs) So you didn’t walk in and take your top off?
CHARLIE: No, I didn’t have to do that at all. You do have to submit a photo with your CV.
TGUK: A topless photo?
CHARLIE: No. But I believe some people have send topless pics with their CVs.
TGUK: A lot of people are saying apps are destroying bar culture do you agree?
CHARLIE: Not really. I think people are coming to bars more with groups of friends whereas they’re using the apps to meet someone. But I see people on apps all the time in here, sat at the bar on Grindr. So they still come to the bar but people don’t come to meet people anymore. I think apps have taken people’s confidence away to go up to someone and talk to them or buy them a drink. People would rather just sit on Grindr find someone from another bar and just meet up that way.
TGUK: Why do you think that is?
CHARLIE: I think there’s a lot of pressure put on gay people to look a certain way or to be a certain way. If you’re talking to someone not face to face you can be a bit more confident.
TGUK: What do you think the future of Soho gay scene is?
CHARLIE: As it stands now, with certain bars closing down, it looks like they’re trying to disperse Soho and move the gay scene all around as opposed to focusing on the one spot but I don’t think it should be. Soho has always been different and it has that edge about it and it works. It’s a colourful place it’s vibrant and that’s what you want here. You don’t want to go to one bar for a couple of drinks then have to get the tube to go to another bar. I think also certain bars won’t move at all. Ku bar won’t be moving. I don’t know. We’ll see how it all unfolds.
TGUK: What’s the craziest thing you’ve seen happen in Ku?
CHARLIE: I’ve seen someone get on their knees at the end of the bar a couple of months ago. We obviously kicked them out. I mean fair
enough if you’re going into the toilets but it was a busy Friday night and I didn’t know what was going on.
TGUK: Were they drunk?
CHARLIE: Yeah of course. They were drunk but come on! How drunk do you have to be to forget you’re in Ku bar and think you’re in Chariots?
TGUK:(Laughs) Well chariots is kinda far away…
CHARLIE: F*** it, let’s just get it on here! (Laughs)
TGUK: Compared to other bars is there a cache for being a Ku boy?
CHARLIE: Absolutely. Because we always win Boyz Awards for sexiest bar staff, and we’re known for having good looking bar staff. I think when you’re working in gay bars in this area you know of Ku and you wanna work there. You wanna say I work at Ku. There is that opinion that Ku boys are… I don’t want to say better that other
bar boys but… You have to live up to it.
TGUK: So are you in the gym quite a lot?
CHARLIE: I used to be a stick thin twink then. When I started working in this Ku bar I started going to the gym and getting a little bit musclier.
TGUK: So a Ku bar boy or a Jeremy Joseph Flyer Boy?
CHARLIE:(Laughs) I know what I would choose Ku every single time.
CREDIT: Monty McKinnen
CREDIT: Monty McKinnen/THEGAYUK
Name: Ondrej Zemamec
Age: 24
From: Czech Republic, now Battersea
Pets: American Cocker Spaniel – Simba
TGUK: What made you come to London?
ONDREJ: I came to London in 2008 to do my pre-uni education. At the moment I’m studying Law which I’m in my final year of. So I’m working here and studying now.
TGUK: What’s the dream then?
ONDREJ: I don’t know to be honest. I just want to finish university and possibly get myself into something a bit more creative. Probably journalism even. I think being a lawyer isn’t the right path for me.
TGUK: How long is your law course?
ONDREJ: It takes three years.
TGUK: Do you work here part-time then?
ONDREJ: I work here four days a week.
TGUK: Is it tough to get your study and work time in?
ONDREJ: It is difficult but I was doing other jobs in the past like retail and selling stuff and it wasn’t really working well with my uni schedule and in London you have to work alongside your studies in order to survive. So I decided to come back to Ku bar, because I used to work here about three years ago. We have fun, we work at nights, but we get good tips and have fun customers.
TGUK: Charlie was saying you could earn up to £140 a night in tips?
ONDREJ: You can, it depends on the customer. If someone’s really interested in you, possibly. Usually I get roughly about £50 a night but some nights you get £10 and others more.
TGUK: What are the best days to work?
ONDREJ: For me personally it’s better to work weekdays for tips purely because there’s more barmen at the weekend. There’s about 8-9 of us behind the bar then. It’s crazy but it’s about the quantity of showing the boys to the public. The weekdays, by yourself, you get more time to give to the customer and talk to them a bit more.
TGUK: Do you think you become some of the customers’ counsellors or therapists?
ONDREJ: Some of the customers come here to escape their world outside, so we try to be warm with as many customers as we can. We’ve got so many regular customers that we have established relationships with many of them. We’re at that stage where not only do we know what they’re going to order when they come in but also know if they’ve had a bad day or not so we can ask them, ‘are you ok?’
TGUK: Do all the Ku boys get on or is like Dreamgirls with pushing down the stairs?
ONDREJ: [Laughs] No. I think the whole process of hiring here, they want to make sure someone is going to fit in with the team and if there is someone who doesn’t really fit well, or gives off an attitude, they usually leave quite quick. It’s all about a family environment here. Being nice to each other.
TGUK: During promotional shoots do you find it odd or funny being asked to get close and intimate with your fellow colleagues?
ONDREJ: Not really because we all know each other. All the time we’re walking around having fun and we know we don’t take ourselves too seriously. Everyone always makes us feel at ease.
TGUK: Do you have a boyfriend or girlfriend?
ONDREJ: I have a boyfriend. It’s going to be 4 years soon.
TGUK: Where did you meet?
ONDREJ: We actually met here.
TGUK: He wasn’t a customer was he?
ONDREJ: Well, because I used to work here back then, I kinda knew him through people around him, well one thing led to another.
TGUK: Do you live together?
ONDREJ: Yes, we’ve been living together now for over two years.
TGUK: Apart from working at Ku you obviously go to the gym a lot?
ONDREJ: Well, I try to be disciplined. I’m not going to say I’m a fitness guru or know what I’m doing but I try to keep my routine.
TGUK: How long do you the gym?
ONDREJ: Usually it’s about an hour to an hour and a half. I don’t watch myself as much as some people do. I’m taking it easy. I do it more for good feeling, I need those endorphins running.
TGUK: Many think that bar culture is dying, do you see less people coming into town?
ONDREJ: I don’t think it’s about less people coming into town, or that people aren’t interested, it’s more about the local government deciding what they want to do and as a gay community we have to stand up and fight for our space because this has been a gay community for years.
TGUK: What’s the best thing about being a Ku boy?
ONDREJ: I’ve worked in other bars and this one has the family atmosphere going on, so you feel quite welcome and at ease. You feel comfortable and good about yourself. Obviously you have to listen to your managers and people above you but it’s all a friendly approach.
TGUK: Do you feel under pressure to look good as a Ku boy?
ONDREJ: Not under pressure. Obviously I want to look good. We take our tops off now and then and any sort of job where you’re topless you want to make sure you’re looking your best. I think you need to be ok with yourself first. As long as you’re comfortable with who you are then it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. It sounds cliché but it’s so true.
TGUK: So do they give you tips on how to get a good body?
ONDREJ: No, not at all. They don’t hire people here purely on their physique. We have all types of barmen here from big muscly ones to skinny twinky ones. This
TGUK: Is there much competition between different bar staff such as the Ku boys Vs the G-A-Y boys?
ONDREJ: If there is I haven’t sensed it. Because we’re here all the time we’re not really thinking about other bars, if they have better looking boys. I think the moment you start focusing on others you stop focusing on yourself and so you should just make sure everything is running smoothly in your own venue and not worry about anyone else’s.
TGUK: Where do you go and drink on your days off?
ONDREJ: I don’t drink much because I’m studying and try to keep sober. Most of the time I’m here so when I’m off I try to stay away from the alcohol.
TGUK: So do they give you tips on how to get a good body?
ONDREJ: No, not at all. They don’t hire people here purely on their physique. We have all types of barmen here from big muscly ones to skinny twinky ones. This bar tries to keep it as versatile as possible.
TGUK: Oh, so Ku bar is Versatile is it?
ONDREJ:[Laughs] Yes, I’m not sure if that’s the right terminology I should use.
TGUK: Where do you go and drink on your days off?
ONDREJ: I don’t drink much because I’m studying and try to keep sober. Most of the time I’m here so when I’m off I try to stay away from the alcohol.
TGUK: Does working in a bar make you less interested in drinking?
ONDREJ: Maybe just for the time being. If you’re working four days a week in a bar then you don’t really feel like going to a bar on your day off. But obviously if I was on holiday for two weeks then I’d go to the bar.
TGUK: Do you get to go home much?
ONDREJ: Yes, I go every three months or so because of my family and friends.
TGUK: Are you out to your family?
ONDREJ: Yes, I came out to them about a year and a half ago. They actually took it very well. In a way they pushed me into coming out as they sensed it. They accepted me and my boyfriend very well. Within a month they came to London and stayed with us for a couple of days, so I couldn’t have wished for a better ending. When you hear some stories about people being kicked out of their homes, I’m very lucky.
TGUK: How does the gay scene here compare to your hometown?
ONDREJ: I’m from a small town so there’s not much of a gay scene. People are a bit more quiet. Obviously, it’d be different if I was from Prague, people are a bit more out there. As far as my town goes it’s a bit more don’t ask don’t tell. People are still scared to come out openly which is why a lot of people leave to move to bigger cities.
Sheila Simmonds is one #BusyLady. She’s a TV legend on a Home Shopping channel as well as an international recording artiste. She’s a huge fan of Polyester and she’s always dressed head to toe in her, now famous, trademark baby pink trouser suit and trusty flats. All the way from Woolloomooloo, Sheila Rocks Our Wheels.
CREDIT: Supplied
TGUK: So is this the first time you’ve done an interview with a gay publication?
SS: Oh, I don’t know. No, I think I’ve done quite a few. I’ve done ‘Horse & Hound’, ‘Woman’s Weekly’…
TGUK: So which one or who is your favourite Kardashian?
SS: Now, favourite Kardashian. I was going to say the one that had a sex change but she’s not a Kardashian is she? I think it’s got to be Rob actually. He just kind of goes thin and then goes fat. Then he disappears for a while then comes back with a girlfriend looking really hot. Then he disappears and he comes back with a sandwich looking really fat. It’s the unpredictability of Rob that I like.
TGUK: Is having a tight body and a fit outlook important to you Sheila?
SS: Well, personally, it doesn’t really matter because I’ve now a range of clothing from ‘#WithTheLady’ range which are all built-in with gussets. So it gives you the option to eat whatever you want. To me it’s not important, to any of the people who wear me clothes, it’s not important but I guess if you’re a Kardashian it’s not important either, is it really? So, no. I’d say no on that one.
TGUK: Sheila, it must be important for you as a brand to keep healthy, keep fit and keep a trim waist?
SS: Well I’m Australian you see. We have a varied diet. That keeps us nice and trim as well. A little bit of kangaroo meat, eucalyptus leaves that kind of stuff. Bit of dirt. Fosters lager… You get your nutrients and your five-a-day in just a tin of Fosters these days.
TGUK: Do you know what sounding is?
SS: Sounding, no I’ve no idea. Tell me. Enlighten me, darling.
TGUK: Would it surprise you to learn that it’s when men, it’s a man thing, put metal rods down their pee-holes?
SS: No, it wouldn’t surprise… I mean what is the purpose of it? Do you kind of tune in? Is it like a radio receiver? Do you kind of put your ear to it and then you’ve got a little Radio 1 coming through? Is that what it is? That’s what I like about the gays, is that they’ll try anything. Any hole’s an experiment isn’t it, with the gays?
TGUK: Tell me, are you a fan of Madonna?
SS: Oh, God I love Madge. Do you know we actually went out for lunch, well she invited me over for dinner the other day. We’ve known each other for years. Back to the Woolloomooloo Cabbage Festival in 1975. I came third.
TGUK: Where did she come?
SS: She was unplaced.
TGUK: Liza Minnelli, is she someone that you would look up to?
SS: I’d probably look down on Liza because she’s shorter than I am, and we don’t get on.
TGUK: Oh no? Is there a story?
SS: No. There is a story but I’m not sure if can repeat it right now. Let’s just say it involves a wok.
TGUK: Have you ever… A) Facebook stalked an ex for two hours? B) Sat alone in the dark with a bottle of red wine singing along to Celine Dion? C) Destroyed a man’s wardrobe with scissors because it seemed like the right thing to do?
SS: B, but that was only because me money ran out on the electric key.
TGUK: Do you like a bit of Celine Dion?
SS: I love a bit of Celine Dion. Do you know what me favourite one is, I do like to do karaoke nights actually, is ‘My Heart Will Go On’. People throw ice cubes at me while the Titanic sinks it’s fantastic.
TGUK: What’s the most outrageous thing you’ve ever bought?
SS: Twitter followers… and do you know the most outrageous thing about it is, I bought quite a few thousand, three days later they all disappeared! I went from popular to nothing just like that, overnight. Mind you I only paid seven dollars so…
TGUK: Who’s your style icon? Because you’ve a very strong sense of style it has to be said.
SS: I do, yes, I do. Well, I’d say, yes, it’s me.
TGUK: Have you ever dumped a boy because his boy parts were too small?
SS: I don’t know, but I’ve dumped on a boy… oh no don’t write that one, that’s a bit sick. No, but you know, I had to dump a guy because his bits were too big! I know. I looked at him, I said, ‘Strewth, strike a light and throw a seven’. It was terrible. I thought that’s not going anywhere near me so I palmed him off to me sister Jean. She’s quite happy with him, they’re still together actually.
TGUK: What do you think about drag queens?
SS: Do you know what? I don’t mind because all of my clothing are made for women or men that like to dress as women. You know I think of that as more revenue for me really! I love it.
TGUK: God’s answer to gay men is… A) Blue Nun with a Babycham chaser; B) Tom Daley in his tiniest costume; or C) The ability to light up a room with a single soft-tone light bulb?
SS: I’ve got to go for the Blue Nun with the Babycham chaser because that just sounds delicious.
Follow Sheila on Twitter twitter.com/SheilaSimmonds and don’t forget to log into Facebook every Wednesday for her Facebook Live show www.facebook.com/pages/Sheila-Simmonds/
Anton Stephans is back in the theatre. After a year of non-stop X Factor appearances, tours and general madness he’s back to his first love – Musicals. He’s about to star in the re-staging of Moby Dick! The Musical, at the Union Theatre in London. We meet in the lush surroundings of a posh eatery in central London. He orders a healthy chicken salad and looks intently at me. He has incredibly bright eyes, an infectious naughty cackle and a very open soul. Within seconds we’re talking about dirty mags and sticky floors in Soho… I can tell this is going to go down well.
What kind of student were you?
I was always in trouble. I liked to ask lots of questions, and I liked to explore things, so if we went on a trip to London, me and my friends would go into Soho… I’ve not told anyone this before. My friends and I would sneak off and go in to Soho. It was when it was fun. It was dark. It was seedy. When you went, your feet stuck to the floor. We’d go in, and you know they have all those magazines as well, so we’d go in looking at filthy mags. Of course I was very inquisitive. I wanted to know what people do. I found out.
So no teacher’s pet then?
No. I don’t think anyone would call me teacher’s pet. I was more the person that would get on your nerves because I would ask so many questions. I just wanted to know more about the world. Although I’d been taught things, things I wanted to know then, they weren’t teaching.
What’s your happiest memory?
I know this might sound cheesy, but I got home today and my aunt came round to the house, she said, “How are you?” “I’m really happy at the moment. I’m really happy.” I’m happiest when I’m working. I think men should work.
Really?
Yeah, men should work. If we’re not working, we get up to all sorts. We should be working. The devil makes work for idle hands.
Are you a happy person?
I’m generally a very positive, happy person. I think nothing is forever. I’ve learned that everything changes. If you hold on to things too tightly and you live in the past, that’s where you become miserable. You can’t fix what you did yesterday. I can’t fix what I just did. I can only go forward and be the best I can be now.
Did you get that from a book?
No, no, no. Let go of your mistakes very quickly. Other people might not. Other people will hold on to them. Let go of the mistakes very quickly and go forward because those things are going to bind you. Those things hold you back. If you let it go, and go, “Okay. I made that mistake. I got it very wrong. If I do this and keep going, it gets better.”
What are you most afraid of?
Not achieving the personal things that I want. In my life, career-wise, things are going incredibly well. Thank God. You got a rabbit’s foot?
Are you more a fan of meeting people for real or dating apps?
Apparently, the guy who looks after all my media has found tons of Grindr profiles of me on it.
What like catfish profiles, pretending to be you?
I’m thrilled. I hope they’re getting lots of dates.
What do you think your porn name would be?
My porn name? Rex Huns.
What did you want to be when you grew up?
I always wanted to be an actor.
What is the most important life lesson you’ve learned?
Love is everything. It is everything. It is the most important thing we can do for each other that doesn’t cost any money.
What if the other person’s a complete asshole?
Love is still good. It’s the best.
If you could invite three famous people to dinner, dead or alive, who would you invite?
Oh, my God. Bette Davis. That would be very fun, I really like Tom Cruise… we’ve been chatting on Twitter and Jennifer Hudson. I love her. I love everything about her.
If you found £50 in the street, what would you do?
Spend it.
If you found £45,000 in a suitcase and you were in a park by a bench and you were absolutely certain that you weren’t being watched, what would you do?
Oh, my God. Well I’d keep it. I would. I’m sorry. I’m that person. Is that an awful thing to say? I’m going to say the truth. I would keep it. I would probably give some to my friends. People I know who need money. Is that really bad? I’d think it was God’s gift. That, my friends, is God’s gift. That is love in action.
What keeps you awake at night?
The only thing I get up for is to go to the loo these days.
What’s the last thing you do at night?
I write my list every night. I do a list so I know what I’m doing the next day. I’ve never ever, very rarely, have I ticked off all the things on my list that I was supposed to do. That worries me. Sometimes I wake up going, “Really, really should have polished them shoes. Can’t wear them tomorrow!”
What’s on the bucket list. Top three things?
Jumping out of an airplane. I’ve always wanted to get into a car and drive from one end of America to the other. I want to go find music in rare places.
This is slightly personal. When did you first do the deed?
Such a long time ago. I also had sex with lots of girls, too.
How would you describe your sexuality?
I’m gay. I would say having sex with a woman, at the time, was like visiting Paris. Nice place to go. Wouldn’t want to live there. There’s no real centre. Everything’s spread out with lots of attractions.
Men are more like New York….
There it is. There’s Times Square.
Would you change your first experience?
No. I think everything happens right, and it did. I was very lucky. I am still friends with these people.
What song would you have played at your funeral?
Oh, God. I don’t plan on dying ever. That’s the deal, isn’t it?
If you could go back in history, where would you go?
Oh, golly. Well, I wouldn’t go back too far. My folk haven’t been dealt very well. I’d be serving you lunch. I wouldn’t go back too far. I think that’s why I like the now!
What’s the first thing you do every day?
Brush my teeth. Usually these days I’m getting up very early and going to the gym. I’m doing this new thing, well, new to me, called gymming.
What annoys you about yourself?
I wish that I had more control of my upset at injustice, or when someone says something rude, I wish I just had the ability to let them just do it and get away with it, especially on Twitter or social media.
What’s your best physical feature?
I don’t know. My smile, I think. Is that a physical feature? That, and I’ve got really great legs!
One of Britain’s most enduring drag queens Dave Lynn is fit, fifty-something and still fabulous. In a career path that is notoriously tricksy Dave Lynn has managed to stay the course for over 40 years, becoming, dare we say it, the Godmother of drag in the UK.
PR Provided
Indeed she’s a star of the small and silver screens, stage and is known for her singing prowess. Her appearance in the seminal coming-of-age gay drama, Beautiful Thing in 1996, makes her a legend – but you will have seen Dave Lynn turning up on Coronation Street, EastEnders, Doctors and most recently in Birds Of A Feather as Lesley Joseph’s drag self Proxy Cohen.
We meet in Wandsworth where Dave Lynn was starring as Sally (a drag queen) in a play about the murder of Scott Amedure in 1995. Amedure was a man who was shot to death after revealing his attraction to a male acquaintance on a talk show to be broadcast on national TV in America. The programme never actually aired, but the story reverberated around the globe. Explaining why he decided to star in the production he tells me, “I remember the story when it first came out, I think it’s a powerful piece which needs to be remembered.”
We plan to meet at the theatre at five pm, a couple of hours before the show. He arrives late and he’s very apologetic. He’s driven up from Brighton, thanks to the seemingly never-ending Southern Rail strikes. I’m waiting outside the theatre when he calls my mobile, “I can see you…” he coos – “I just have to wait 3 minutes until I can park for free”
It’s 5:27 – and the restrictions end at 5:30 PM.
I look around and across the road stands a fit looking man, dressed in a simple green vest top and shorts showing off some incredible looking muscles. He’s standing next to his flame red car. He is looking intensely at his phone’s clock. “Should I risk it?” he asks looking behind his shoulder for those notorious London traffic wardens. “No”, I say, “the moment you walk away, they’ll pounce like wasps on a barbeque sausage.”
We stand and wait for 3 minutes and It occurs to me that I’ve never seen Dave Lynn the man.
PR Provided
It’s clear to see that Dave is fit, standing around 5’9. He’s of slight build and he has those killer legs on show. Nothing about Dave – the man – gives away his full-time job, entertaining the patrons at gay bars across the South-East. No, nothing gives him away, apart from his eyebrows – so perfectly plucked and shaped.
With 30 seconds to go before 5:30 PM, we risk it and take a short walk to a local coffee shop. We order our £2.80 coffees and like two old friends, within minutes, we’re chatting like we’ve known each other for years. He’s extremely approachable and talkative, despite telling me that out of drag that he’s actually quite shy. We fall into reminiscing about the gay scene of a yesteryear – when there was a surprising number of gay bars in London. Just to put it into context over 100 gay bars have closed since 2000.
My first introduction to Dave Lynn was probably, as for most of us, through the feature film Beautiful Thing. Then there was that drag special episode of The Weakest Link with Anne Robinson, but it’s not until you see Dave Lynn live that you get to experience the character that is ‘Dave Lynn’. His sharp tongue and his incredibly feminine look have given Dave Lynn the edge over his contemporaries. But, there’s a wisdom to the act too. It’s the wisdom which helps a seasoned entertainer know who to pick on in an audience. Oh boy, when she gets going, she gets going. You wouldn’t want to be a heckler in Dave Lynn’s audience. Dave explains that it’s a bit of a talent, “there’s a great ‘wave’ of someone you think would be good. You don’t always get it right. I’ve also got a great habit of going to somebody who’s going to be harder. I hate to be defeated,” he laughs, puts down his coffee and looks intently at me, his left eyebrow raised. Perhaps he’s wondering if I was ever one of those hecklers.
I ask about Dave’s first foray into drag. He tells me that like so many legendary drag queens he started in London. The stage of The Black Cap was the birthing pool for so many of today’s most iconic queens and it’s where he got her break. He laughs as he tells that he was so rushed that he actually hadn’t thought about a name – and was just introduced as “Dave”.
PND Photography
“I was so nervous it didn’t occur to me to have a name. I got a friend to do the makeup, I borrowed stuff from my mum to wear. The name hadn’t occurred to me. When the host said to me, ‘what’s your name?’ I went “Dave”. That was it.”
You might be surprised to know but the Lynn part of the name came from a suggestion by his grandmother whilst sitting with her one evening. He lets me into a secret, “Lynn came from me sitting with my grandma, she was living with us at the time. She said take Mummy’s name, which was Lily strangely enough. So we went to her middle name which is Evelyn and that’s how Dave Lynn came about.”
So it seems that Dave’s drag was a family affair. He revels in the fact that his mother loved his makeup skills so much so that he’d have to go to her house to do hers before making his way to his own show. She was very exacting about Dave’s own makeup. He smiled, remembering, “She did not like me with heavy lips. She did not like me in headdresses.”
Does he remember what he borrowed from his mum that fateful night at The Black Cap?
“I was a big fan of Liza Minnelli, big fan. Huge. In fact, I think she made me want to be in “it” (showbiz) really. So obviously I wanted to do a number by her. I borrowed a gold, lurex halter-neck off mum. She was a wonderful mum.”
After The Black Cap, he was given a stint in the East-end bar, BJ’s White Swan. He started off, surprisingly as a mime act, which gave him the opportunity to observe and learn, “I had seen all the characters and the patter. I was shown Hen-Night patter, basically, us being married to men and what they did…”
By the time Dave Lynn became a talkie as it were, progressing on from mime, his evolved style was considered “dangerous” for the time.
“Everybody said I was dangerous, I started to talk about real stuff, real-life stuff that was part of me. I never ever claimed to be a woman, I just took on what was going on. What I thought. Very rarely were there jokes. I tended to talk about my background, truthfulness. I found wit very much in my family.”
Was his family witty?
“On the Jewish side,” he explains, “I’m not saying this because I love my religion, but I think it’s given me a lovely wit. My mum was great like that. She just said things and I would just laugh at her. My parents together, even their rows were funny. Hysterical.”
Learning his trade, he stumbled upon a winning formula. That ‘danger’ would manifest itself beyond telling jokes, lip-syncs or just singing songs, he went to the audience. “I would actually talk to the audience and go amongst them. I think I was one of first to do that. Nowadays, of course, everybody does that.”
Times have changed in the 40 years that Dave Lynn has been dragging up. Looking back, he tells me that drag was always key to gay bars thriving and was an essential part of gay bar culture. He recalls fondly, “A lot of it was underground. The scene was absolutely fantastic. Getting around was so easy. The world’s busier. I’m really proud that we kept the scene going. It could have died a few times, I’ve seen probably about three generations of people go by. I believe that today is exactly what it should be. I don’t wish for the past.”
I ask what he thinks about the growing number of shuttered gay bars across the UK. He pauses and with a considered tone tells me, “I think what’s happening, this is my opinion, the bars went through a change. It was very much: everybody got dressed up, went out, to have fun, you’d know the drag act. Then it all changed. It got more drinky. That was okay – you could deal with that. Then hours got later, then you had the smoking thing, that changed a lot”.
There was also the 80s and 90s AIDS crisis, did that have an effect on the scene? “I remember going to work one night. I came off (stage) and I said to my friends, God, it’s like a cloud above the audience. It was unreal. But it changed. I found out if you’re on stage that you’re an aunt. They come and talk to you. They needed to be entertained. We needed entertainment.”
He looks down at my phone – which is recording our conversation and says, “Then you had mobile phones” – our relationship with our phones has changed the way we socialise. The jury is still out on whether dating apps are to blame for the decline of the traditional gay scene, but Dave Lynn intimates that it’s more about concentration – that perhaps bars – and drag queens have to work harder to engage with today’s audience.
“I think it needed a kick up the arse. I think it’s up to people now to say “right I’m out for the night, I’m gonna have a good time, I’m gonna put my phone away for half an hour, I’m gonna be part of the act… leave the phone at home because it’s taking over life”
And has drag itself changed?
“I think it’s developed a new life of its own, in the last decade. Since I started where you didn’t really talk about it. I’m happy now to go into a shop to buy high heels, but I remember taking a shopping list and pretending to buy it for ‘my girlfriend’,” he chuckles and leans in, “there are some newbie artists that are a bit too near the mark for me but actually the quality of acts is probably the highest standard I’ve ever seen.”
Our interview is coming to an end, Dave is anxious to get over to the theatre to prepare for the show.
There’s a poster outside and Dave Lynn in all her glittery finery is smiling at us… It’s about 45 minutes before the show. I ask how long it takes to get from man Dave to lady Dave. He chuckles, looking at the poster and tells me he’s “gotten quite quick at it these days”.
As he walks away to his dressing room he looks at me one last time and says with a smile – “It’s been a fascinating career and time.”
I don’t doubt it for a moment.
This interview was taken from Issue 22 of THEGAYUK.
When you pick up the phone to a drag queen you never know what you’re going to talk about but it’s usually all cocktails and cock. So it was a surprise when Lady Bunny launched into a full on political rampage and she’s not afraid to speak her mind. For those to whom Lady Bunny is an unknown, she’s a Southern-born, New York living drag legend. Having paved a path since the 80s as one of the States’ most famous drag exports, Lady Bunny is a much-loved personality as the face of one of New York’s most famous festivals, ‘Wigstock’ which ran successfully every Labor Day in the city for twenty years. Of course, her TV credits run to Sex And The City and her film credits feature, To Wong Foo and Another Gay Sequel: Gays Gone Wild. It’s 9AM EST when I call – I’m expecting a tired voice – but no, she’s up, raring and she’s got a man in to fix her wires… she tells me she’ll be running out of electricity any minute…
CREDIT: PR Supplied / Lady Bunny
What do you think the differences are between American drag and British drag?
Well you know I did a panel on drag with Boy George and some others. He claimed that the dole makes performers lazy, and that therefore he preferred American drag queens because if you don’t have a safety net, which is going to help you out financially, you have to develop something that works, or sit penniless.
That was brave of him.
Well I mean, I don’t actually know what your social situation is. I’m jealous of your healthcare. I could tell you that right now. I wish we had it here, but I mean that was his observation. My observation is that if you’re living in New York City, especially now, you have to hustle to pay rent. Somebody has got to like what you’re doing.
Do you think there’s a difference between American and British audiences?
Yes. I’m told by people who have more experience doing theatre that British audiences are more reserved, that they will often not be as vocal. I mean please, Americans yell in a movie theatre when the actors can’t even hear them, with their bucket of fried KFC and popcorn. I’m also told that just because the British audience is more reserved doesn’t mean they’re not enjoying the show.
My observation of English drag is that it’s really like American drag. There’s the queens that are very beautiful and can’t do much. Which is basically what’s happening in a lot of countries due in part to Ru Paul’s Drag Race. They have a fantastic look and they’re young, and they’re pretty and thin, and I’m jealous. They’re not necessarily performers. They’re booked maybe because they’re on TV. Some of them are great performers don’t get me wrong.
I love the English tradition of the salty pub drag who sings live. The tradition Lily Savage comes out of…
Do you enjoy watching drag as a spectator?
Oh my god yes. All my best friends are drag. I love to watch all kinds of drag. I love to see a great lip sync. There’s also the theme queens. Like, Tasty Tim and Lady Lloyd. They’re just cool people who you want to have at a party.
What’s the best thing about being Lady Bunny?
Well. Oh gosh. I’m always horrible at these questions. The best thing, listen, I’m happy to just be working regularly because, to be honest, you don’t see that many older queens out there working.
I don’t know what happened, but whether they just decided the discomfort is too much as your body gets older, or it’s because you don’t look as good. When you get older, no one does!
For reasons unknown to me, you don’t see a lot of old queens working. I’m thankful I am one who is. I don’t know how to do anything else. I don’t have to work a day job. It keeps me very busy. I’m always travelling. I’m a worker bee. I love my work and listen, I chose it and somehow it worked out. I said, “Hey you need to pay attention to this.” And they did, so I can’t bitch now. I got what I wanted.
Did you ever imagine growing up in Chatta…
Chattanooga.
Is that small town America? What kind of place is that in Tennessee?
Well it’s a medium sized city, and it’s in the South, so there’s Republicans and rednecks and evangelical Christians. Luckily my family was not one of those. I mean that’s why I really got the hell out because you’d be walking down the street minding your own business and a car would drive by, and a bottle will whiz by your face, or maybe hit you in the head. Sometimes I live in the big city bubble where we forget how rough things are for gay or trans people in the rest of the country.
I just went to North Carolina where they have the Bathroom Bill that won’t allow trans people to use the bathroom of their choosing, and I was like I didn’t know what bathroom to use under fear of arrest. Luckily my heavy flow, extra strength, industrial diapers enable me to go pretty much anywhere I want. Anytime, anywhere I want.
Was it good having your own facilities?
I mean that the idea that someone like me is going to go into the ladies room and peek over the stall to make sexual advances on someone’s wife or daughter is so insane. I do that in the men’s room honey.
At the front, historically speaking, drag queens have always been at the forefront of getting things done. Getting shit moved, and things like that. Why do you think that is?
Drugs.
Well I mean one example is Stonewall, where drag queens and trans people were credited with starting that riot. Here’s the thing. If you’re gay and you can pass as straight, and you have a job in the straight world and are closeted, then you can choose to put on a pink t-shirt and march in a parade once a year and be overtly gay when you choose. But if you are noticeably effeminate, or if you are a trans person who doesn’t look exactly like a woman or man, or a drag queen; then you get the shit on the street that is going to make you say, “Uh-uh, I’ve had enough. I don’t have a closet I can retreat into because this is who I am.” Sometimes we will feel the brunt of the discrimination for that reason.
So moving on to Trump. What are you feeling about Trump?
Trump is a jackass and I’m shocked that he’s gotten as far as he’s gotten. I didn’t think he was going to make it out of the convention because Republicans hate him. His own party hates him.
None of the former Presidential candidates or Republican presidents went to the Republican National Convention, because he’s the nominee. While he got the votes of the Republican voters to make him the nominee, the Republican establishment hates him because he’s a loose cannon, and they can’t control him.
He’s in it for his ego I presume. He’s a psycho narcissist. I mean, why would he want to be President? It’s a pay cut for him.
He is a drag queen’s dream target for jokes… but there’s actually a reality that he could potentially become President.
Yes. I mean it is, it is scary. One of the reasons that Trump is doing well is that there’s a deep distrust of Hillary Clinton. Everyone is fed up with the DC political establishment of both parties.
People voting for Trump are hating the system. This is the interesting thing I saw someone talking about the Brexit on the news.
She was saying, “You can call supporters of the Brexit racist, but you can not discount their economic woes, and you do so at your own peril.” (It’s) the same as here. With Hillary, and even with Obama, the Democrats are the party of war and Wall Street.
Neither candidate is offering a path to peace. Gays here do not like it when I say this because they are very much bound to Hillary as their queen, but the best thing Hillary has going for her is that she’s running against Trump. She is not trustworthy, and she represents war and corporations. It really is the lesser of two evils.
The common wisdom is Trump is insane, so even though Hillary is not trustworthy, hold your nose and vote for Hillary because she is the lesser of two evils, but as we run from the Trump monster we may be running into the arms of another monster named Hillary Clinton. Her policies have caused the economic woes.
Hillary was not a leader on gay rights. Everyone knows Hillary is a flip flopper. She does what’s politically expedient. She licks her finger and sticks it up in the air, and sees which way the wind is blowing and has an attitude of, “You tell me where you want to go and I’ll lead you.”
That’s the worst kind of leader.
Well exactly. She could not even come out for gay marriage until like 2013 when it was already legal in at least 7 states. I mean, she is not a leader on gay anything, and you know, listen, the Republicans, they bash gays and abortion because that gets them the evangelical vote.
The Democrats say that they support abortion rights and gay rights so that they can be voted in, but both parties still funnel all the new money to the one per cent because our government is controlled by corporations.
The bizarre thing about Trump is that he has found the Democrat’s Achilles heel in the TPP trade deal, which Obama is pushing in secret. Hillary’s husband Bill passed NAFTA, a trade deal which killed a million jobs in manufacturing and sent them overseas because Capitalists want what? Cheaper labour.
American workers can’t, it’s the same thing that’s going on there in Britain.
Listen, I didn’t say his (Trump’s) supporters were smart, but they know what this trade deal represents. Hillary claims to oppose it now, but she spoke out publicly for it as Secretary of State 45 times and said that she hoped it would be the gold standard of trade agreements, so no one believes her when she says she opposes it. You have Sander, Clinton, and Trump opposing this trade deal and Obama is pushing it? He’s pushing the trade deal with only support from Republicans in congress.
Everyone who is blue collar, you know, they know that it killed their entire way of life when one guy could work at a factory, make a decent enough wage for his wife to stay home and maybe send a kid or two to college. That’s dead. That whole way of life. Yes, people’s dreams are dashed. This is my fear that people know that Hillary, like Obama, is a corporate Democrat, and this TPP trade deal serves corporations. Not the 99% of us, so you know, it is insane to me that Trump can have the shtick of, “Oh, I’m a rich man. I make deals.” And actually make people believe, “Oh, him rich. Him going to make me rich. Him going to run country like business.”
Even though his own businesses have failed, and gone bankrupt, but it’s the TPP that really hurts them.
Working class people are the ones whose kids get sent to war. When we’re in these wars that we were lied into, which Hillary voted for, they don’t want their kids to die for nothing, but now they’ve created a situation where the only job you can get is fighting in the military, so it’s difficult to even speak out against war in this country. We’re a war-like country. We’re the only country in the world that has military bases all over the world, and honey they’re not handing out lollipops, you know. This is all very bizarre to me because Trump is not a traditional Republican, and Hillary is bordering on Republican.
So what’s the answer – not building walls I take it?
Income equality. This is why I say, personally as a slut, I am more concerned with income equality than I am marriage equality for gays because honey, why do I need another broke husband. I mean, they bashed Bernie Sanders because they say he was boring because they said, “Oh, he’s a single issue candidate because his main issue is income inequality.” Well that’s kind of central to everything. Isn’t it?
While it may not be, you may not be able to make a quick decision, are you for abortion? Against it? For gay rights? Against it? Do you want immigrants to be deported or not? Those are easier to understand, but understanding how someone like Clinton chopped welfare that made the poor people even poorer, or her husband had these trade deals that decimated a whole way of life. Listen, if I want to work more in a city, I can drive an Uber. I can work part-time wrapping gifts at Christmas. If you’re out in the middle of nowhere, honey, there is no opportunity. This is what I’m saying. There is despair. That’s not getting onto the news. You can talk about equality, and all this, and all that, but if the wolf is at people’s door, the knives come out. And they come for each other. You blame the immigrants. You blame the gays. You blame anybody. You’re bitter because your bills aren’t paid and your future is dashed.
Dark times. I didn’t see this interview going here.
Listen, honey, I’m going to tell you the truth. I don’t have much in common with millennials. I don’t like their music. I’m not on Snapchat, and don’t even know how to log into my Instagram account. I did have a camera installed in my toilet, so now you can follow me on Shitter. I love that the millennials are disregarding our traditional news sources, and digging around online. The independent reporting has lifted a veil just as cell phone footage of black people being killed by the police is now enabling white people to see what black people have been claiming has gone on since forever.
I personally have a problem with the intrusion of cell phones everywhere, but I’m glad that things like cell phones, video, and Wiki Leaks are exposing what our people in positions of power are doing. We don’t pay the police to kill us. We pay them to protect us.
Good point…
How can I be a gay person and ask you for my equal rights when my black brothers and sisters are being killed?
Do you remember the very first thing you wore as a drag queen?
I remember the wig because it was someone’s cast off, short, old lady, frosted wig. I went out on Halloween just as a woman and my best friend was my husband. We went out as a married couple. My parents did not frown on it. It was like, “Okay. There’s that queen
again, at least she’s finally gotten in drag. We knew it was coming.”
How important is the wig to a drag artist’s brand? I’m thinking specifically of a couple of queens who are very famous for their wig. I see pictures of you and you’ve always got huge blonde locks, and I’m wondering if that’s something that’s done on purpose. For the ‘Lady Bunny’ brand.
I realise that big blonde wigs work for me because I’m not petite. It balances out broad shoulders and a host of other figure flaws. Or a big head. I like to wear bangs to cover my eyes because I don’t even pluck my eyebrows. I grew up in the 60s when big hair was in. Those were my first impressions of glamour girls. That was when every woman had either wigs or falls in their collection at home.
You’ve got the Wig Stock cruise happening. Do you think something like that could be worldwide? Do you think it could travel?
I would like that. We’re kind of just getting our feet wet with this after not doing an event for ages. I would like to see the event come back as an outdoor festival. Large clubs are closing and I don’t know whether it’s because of Grindr, or because people sit on social media all day and post pictures of their food, rather than go have dinner with each other, but people do still want to get together.
What’s replaced the clubs are ‘one-offs’. I call them destination events, like gay pride, or circuit party, or a drag race tour, or a cruise. You know, you kind of invest your time in it and say, “Okay. I’m going to work out extra before this circuit party.” You buy a ticket. You buy a plane ticket and you say, “I’m setting aside this time to have a blast.”
You’ve had a career that’s kind of spanned music, television and obviously live performances. What is your favourite part?
I actually love it all, and by doing different things it keeps me from being bored.
We can’t believe that Lady Bunny is ever bored…
I love my job and I love doing it all the time. Listen, I’ve never once been bored in New York. Never.
Since arriving on the scene in 2013, Sassi Afrika has quickly made her mark as a unique talent and fresh addition to the UK’s drag scene. After taking some time out to record her second album, Pleasure, Sassi is now back on the scene and ready to conquer the world. But first I wanted to pull the great lady to one side, admire her weave, and put some burning questions to her.
CREDIT: Jake Hook/TheGayUK
DB: Sassi, you are back with some new music and a brand new album. Tell me about it.
SA: Darling, it’s fabulous. It’s much better than my last album. I’m even in tune on parts of this one. It’s a lot more sexual and way more Sassi.
DB: Well you are certainly sassy. You’ve been doing some live shows recently too. Your outfits appear to be getting more and more revealing. Is there a reason for that?
SA: Have you seen me? I’m hot, that’s why. I’ve got it, so I flaunt it. You should wear something a bit more revealing yourself. Show a bit of cleavage, dear. This album is called Pleasure, so I’m doing all I can to give pleasure. My outfits are part of that.
DB: And you’ve been spreading out into the world of presenting this year too. Is there no end to your talent?
SA: Oh please, I don’t have talent; I am talent. I sing, dance, act, present, and can tie a knot in a cherry stalk with my tongue. I’m very talented.
DB: You’ve said in the past that you are a modern day Madonna. Do you still view yourself in that way?
SA: I have nothing but admiration and respect for Madonna. She has been there, done it, done everyone, got the leotard, and is still going. I felt for her when she had the cloak incident at the Brits. But hey, she got up and kept going. Of course, people are going to compare us. We’re both global superstars, natural blondes and have a new face for each album.
DB: Let’s talk about the changing faces of Sassi Afrika. You’re looking fresh at the moment. What’s your secret?
SA: It’s no secret that I’m a fan of cosmetic procedures. I hook up with my surgeon on a regular basis. He nips, tucks, lifts and injects until I’m looking my best again. Also, a local clinic that does cosmetic procedures have recently offered me 50% off all treatments so I am able to have some top ups through the year. There isn’t much of me that’s not plastic, but I look good. I do know that, darling.
DB: Well all the work you’ve had done has clearly been worth it. You look sensational. Moving on, in your last interview with TheGayUK you spoke about your love of the gays. What is it about gays that you love so much?
SA: Oh gays are a hoot. I see myself as the mother of the gays. They come to me for advice, fashion tips and lip gloss. Also, gays lives are full of drama. I just love that because as you know, I don’t do drama; I am drama. I have to say that the gay community has always been there for me and I will always be there for them. We need to stick together, now more than ever. We are family.
DB: Do you know what Amyl Nitrate is?
SA: Poppers, darling. I use them all the time to loosen up Victoria.
DB: Who’s Victoria?
SA: Oh, it’s my pet name for my pussy.
DB: So you have a cat as well as a dog now?
SA: No babe.
DB: I’ve heard that Baywatch is your favourite television show and with a film version being made, I wondered who you would snog, marry and avoid out of the following: a) David Hasselhoff b) Zac Efron c) Pamela Anderson
SA: Oh god, I’d snog them all. Do I have to pick? Erm… Well, if I must. Ok, I’d snog Pammy. She’s like me; she’s just got it. So I’d snog Pamela Anderson. Or would I marry her? Ok, I’d snog Pamela Anderson and then marry her. I’d do more than snog Zac Efron but put him down for a snog. I guess that means I’d have to avoid The Hoff. Will he be in the new film? I used to love watching him trying to hold his stomach in as he ran along the beach. Gotta love a bit of David Hasselhoff.
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Sassi Afrika is clearly a woman who speaks her mind. You can discover more on Twitter @SassiAfrikaand introduce yourself to her music on Bandcamp.
In the late 70s, before they became household names and still just teenagers, two pioneers of 80’s queer culture met in a Swiss Cottage flatshare. And yes there was a boy involved.
CREDIT: PR Supplied
We’re gathered in the basement of a swanky hotel in central London. We’re about to witness the coming together of two of 80’s queer culture’s pioneers. Marilyn and Boy George are about to have a sit down with Kate Flett and 50 journalists.
M: We met around someone’s (house) I think her name was Jane in Swiss Cottage. BG: Punk Jane…
KF: Nobody had surnames did they? M: Punk Jane – Jane was her surname… (laughter) A mutual friend of ours took me round. I didn’t know what the subtext of the script was, but I was being used by said friend to… BG: Piss me off. M: That was a bonus…
KF: So there was always a subtext? M: Always a subtext. BG: My best friend and I had fallen out and I had been replaced by Marilyn, who was a year younger than me. So replaced by a younger model… M: I’ve never grown out of the role. BG: My friend was going around with this young blonde person and it was kind of tense. M: Very. I was completely unaware of what was going on. I didn’t know the dynamics between (George) and Philip Sallon… It was like walking into a lion’s den. This one (pointing to Boy George) was back-combing his hair and giving me looks, I was so terrified.
KF: So when was this? BG: ’77? M: Everything was still in Black and White. KF: You were super young. M: What are you implying?
KF: Nothing at all… I just thought it might be ’79 / ’80. BG: No no, it may have been the end of ’76!
KF: You were children! BG: Yes… mental. The second time we met was at a club called the Sombrero, which was a run down 70s disco we used to go to on the weekends. He came with Phillip to this club and I done this whole new look, a complete transformation. So Phillip came up and spoke to me, not realising it was me. As he spoke to me, he realised it was me and kind of ran off. I believe that Marilyn walked up to me and said, “What do you think of Phillip?” which is one of Marilyn’s famous lines when he wants you to bitch about people… M: I wanted to know what was going on… that’s why I asked. BG: Can we just establish at this point (he) was in full Marilyn Monroe drag. M: I still wanted to know what was going on. Since the first meeting and then the second one I had a little more info and I knew there was some kind of… Philip was… I’m editing myself. Philip’s wonderful, he really is wonderful, but he has an opinion, a very strong opinion and his perception of what went on. I like to hear both sides before I make up my own mind. The more info the better. BG: You’re padding this out. I was fabulous, you were fabulous, we were destined to be friends. M: In a nutshell. BG: It was kind of instant really. I loved the way he looked, I think he quite liked the way I looked. At that time, the New Romantic scene was quite tiny, it was a scene with a massive ego. There was only 200 people at the most. So when you met other people that were like you, you tended to kind of befriend them. I just saw another freak and was like, “You’re going to be my friend,” it was kind of destined that we would end up friends. M: That’s all great, the way you look and everything, but for me when you look into someone’s eyes, what I see beyond whatever the facade is, that’s the thing that’s important to me. When I looked at him there was a connection… BG: Are you being romantic? M: It wasn’t that kind of look.
KF:You just clicked? M: On a really deep level… That doesn’t happen very often.
KF: Where did ‘Marilyn’ come from? Let’s find out how you ended up being in that room with Phillip, wearing your full Marilyn Monroe drag. What’s the journey? M: I started off at school. I had huge problems at school. I was hiding. I was always hiding and trying to get through the experience. I had it from every angle. I felt really repressed. I started getting into punk. I was attracted to the freedom of it because I felt so repressed. I started going to these nightclubs and there was this one club, called the Embassy Club. By this time, my hair was bleached and I put on a little bit of makeup and I was sitting on this stool at the bar and there was a group of guys standing next to me and one of them turned round and went, “Oh my god! Look at him!” There was a spotlight above the stool I was perched on. He was going, “Look, he could be in my front room he’s like a work of art!” and for me, who had that repression, it was like, ‘oh my god’ I was used to getting attention, but not that kind of attention. He was going, “Oh, you’re beautiful, I could have you in my front room under a spotlight and I found out after that his name was Roy Miles, who was the Queen’s art dealer. That validation felt amazing to me. In my head it was obviously to do with the makeup. I had a little bit of blusher on. So the next week I had a little bit of lip rouge on, and I got more attention, I kept thinking it was to do with that. I didn’t think it was anything to do with people liking me for the inside.
KF: It gave you a confidence? M: Yeah. I was being noticed and in an appreciative way. That felt good and I wanted more of it.
KF: What kind of life were you living outside of the nightclubs? M: I just didn’t exist. I stuck black bin liners on my bedroom walls and windows. I would sleep. I was like hibernating until the next nightclub I went to.
KF:Were you more unhappy than your average teenager? M: I think something had snapped in me by then, I was like, “Oh f*** off”. It might sound bitchy, but something inside me snapped. I would look at people and go, “You are picking on me? Get a mirror.” I started being really judgmental of how other people looked. “Don’t f***ing tell me about me, take a look at yourself before you start picking on this”. It went from one extreme to the other. I turned into this creature.
KF: (to Boy George) did you meet ‘the creature’? BG: My story is quite similar. I think what happens when you’re a kid, your defensiveness becomes a powerful tool. When I met my first manager Tony Broaden, and he was trying to get me signed to a record deal, he said that I would walk along the road with him and I’d be really dressed up and people would stare and make comments and I’d scream at them, “What you looking at”… That weird defensiveness was very much part of the 70s. You don’t know whether people are laughing. A lot of eccentric people don’t like be to honed in on. You dress up, but you don’t really want people to make comments. Which is odd because obviously they’re going to. I recognise a lot of myself in that weird defensiveness and becoming a bit spikey to manage yourself getting through… You were always running the gauntlet. Particularly in the 70s because you had all that fabulous tribal stuff, with Mods and Rockers and Skinheads. There was always someone to punch you. It was quite brave. When you’re a kid, long before you start dressing up, you’re made aware that you’re different. Because you’re not interested in the same things as other boys, in football… You’re made to feel different. Later on you start to discover fashion and music and start to build an identity and then people pick on you for different reasons. I guess you make a choice. You either fold in on yourself or become… fabulous.
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PND Photography
